In this video we have a look at a very interesting problem on a 2006 Honda Odyssey 3.5. It came in with a DTC P0389: Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor B Intermittent Interruption. Service info states that "If an abnormal amount of pulsing signals are detected from CKP sensor B, a malfunction is detected and a DTC is stored." So my question to you is, could this vehicle have been diagnosed WITHOUT seeing the waveform on a scope or GMM? -Enjoy!
Free Pico Software (do not need a scope to use this, must have to view files) https://www.picoauto.com/downloads
Link to Pico Files From This Video: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BfLQ6D2-WkUR1_EKrrqwT-Cx_fTs_bdh?usp=sharing
If an SMA Video has helped you out please consider giving using "Patreon" to help support us. The videos take real time to create and pull us away from real work that pays our bills. CLICK HERE: https://www.patreon.com/southmainauto
CHECK OUT OUR "SMA SWAG" STORE! Go on Teespring and get your very own SMA merch!
https://teespring.com/stores/the-sma-store
If you don't like Patreon feel free to use the "PayPal Me" link: https://www.paypal.me/SouthMainAuto
The South Main Auto Amazon Store:
https://www.amazon.com/shop/southmainautorepairavoca
AES Wave Automotive Diagnostic Tools: https://www.aeswave.com/cart.php?m=affiliate_go&affiliateID=2525b91fc8e906e8215984074c9d9e8f&go=https://www.aeswave.com/Miscellaneous-p9347.html
Thank you for all the continuing support!
--Eric & Vanessa O.
Feel like sending some swag to SMA because you love the videos but don't know where to send it?
Just ship it here:
South Main Auto Repair
47 S. Main St
PO Box 471
Avoca, NY 14809
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained
Free Pico Software (do not need a scope to use this, must have to view files) https://www.picoauto.com/downloads
Link to Pico Files From This Video: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BfLQ6D2-WkUR1_EKrrqwT-Cx_fTs_bdh?usp=sharing
If an SMA Video has helped you out please consider giving using "Patreon" to help support us. The videos take real time to create and pull us away from real work that pays our bills. CLICK HERE: https://www.patreon.com/southmainauto
CHECK OUT OUR "SMA SWAG" STORE! Go on Teespring and get your very own SMA merch!
https://teespring.com/stores/the-sma-store
If you don't like Patreon feel free to use the "PayPal Me" link: https://www.paypal.me/SouthMainAuto
The South Main Auto Amazon Store:
https://www.amazon.com/shop/southmainautorepairavoca
AES Wave Automotive Diagnostic Tools: https://www.aeswave.com/cart.php?m=affiliate_go&affiliateID=2525b91fc8e906e8215984074c9d9e8f&go=https://www.aeswave.com/Miscellaneous-p9347.html
Thank you for all the continuing support!
--Eric & Vanessa O.
Feel like sending some swag to SMA because you love the videos but don't know where to send it?
Just ship it here:
South Main Auto Repair
47 S. Main St
PO Box 471
Avoca, NY 14809
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained
When your good your good.
OEM parts is hands down the way to go.
Outstanding!
Fantastic find, I need a scope, your doing a super job sir..
KNOWLEDGEABLE South Main Auto Repair
ErictheCarGuy was right about South Main Auto Repair.
Oscilloscope every Techs should have in their tools kits. Pete Meier Motor Age every Techs should have in their tools kits In. My Oscilloscope Snap-on Zeus use it check vehicle battery. South Main Auto Repair great video please do on Oscilloscope please South Main Auto Repair. Thank you
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
your a mad scientist with this shit!
Great job, I thought it was going to be a problem I have fixed before of the crank pulley hitting the sensor because of camshaft mis-machining.
So I realize I'm late to the party on this video, but why in the H E double hockey sticks are aftermarket manufacturers allowed to sell new, broken products?
I know this is an old video, but this is by far one of the best diagnosis in the whole internet
When a vehicle comes in that has had tons of idiots touching its left to us to see what was done wrong. In this event we look at the parts, aftermarket and OEM is always going to be different that’s why we call them aftermarket. OEM is almost in all cases the way to go when replacing engine, timing and ignition and fuel components on a stock vehicle.
Nice find! We had a similar situation with a jeep clutch that I installed. The new Luk clutch with a new flywheel. The new flywheel looked identical to the old one but still caused a misfire on cylinders 3 and 6. After pulling our hair out, put in the old flywheel and the problem was solved. Sorry to say we didnt use a scope but now we are adding it to our arsenal.
I think if you had taken a measurement on that new aftermarket crank sensor sprocket you would have found that one of those humps I'm not sure what the proper name is that initiate the signal to the sensor it's slightly wider than the others. I bet if you filed down the rounded leading and trayling edges slightly that would have solved your problem. I'm pretty sure that the OEM we're slightly smaller width wise
Job well done!!
The 2 wave form are out sinc
Well I can tell you right now Honda’s hate aftermarket crap, especially odyssey’s, you can get away with some things but most part need to be OEM otherwise you get nonsense like this. Just pay the extra money due the job once and be done with it. Also, awesome job figuring it out Eric, I’ve been down that road a few times as a Honda tech and I can say from absolute experience China ain’t got nothin on Japan.
Great explanation, why are there 2 crank signal are they coming from same wire ?
Great diagnosis. I must mention, and this is before seeing your video, a friend of mine a retired police auto mechanic, told me to always use OEM parts when I did a brake job on my car. Perhaps this has some merit.
If you haven’t you should do a setup video for scopes you should
I'm late to the party, but here's my opinion. The wide pulse suggests to me that the middle magnet on the after-market pulley is a little too strong {or mechanically a bit too wide?} so that the sensor triggers slightly early, therefore creating a wide pulse. Something like that… I'm now retired from designing & prototyping specialty geophysical instruments, and my elderly {2008} PicoScope 3424 {now obsolete} is still a great tool. As Eric says, if you can't see the problem, it is difficult to diagnose.
I guess I be a scope
Nice video . Buddy . Ya need a new cap . Its in tatters lol have a word with Mrs o birthday gift idea lol
Nice that you mention cam/crank variation relearn, this is extremely important. I always do this if the function is available for the vehicle I'm servicing. Sometimes AllData or Mitchell won't even mention this requirement so I look for it with the scan tool to see if it's available and do it.
What would scanner danner say?
crank or cam sensor b?
Spectacular –couldn't find a CKP CMP waveform in the wild (everyone wants a subscription). AND, you provided the only view of the BACK side of the front cam pulley I could find on the Net. Had TB and valve adj by Honda dealer, ran fine for a year, and suddenly a hot weather, off-idle stumble and low speed drivability (bog) that isn't air, spark or fuel related. The crank and cam physical alignment appears spot on, through the removable rubber view ports. Sort of suspecting partially failed tensioner affecting cam timing under low rpm high load, , but want to capture waveforms first, just because. Using a 2-chan Pico. Thanks Eric!
Usual China made shit….actually, you don't need any fancy scopes, just don't buy aftermarket parts from China!
Nice job Dr. O.
I bet and this maybe was already said but I think one of those lobes on that cam pulley is larger than the others by just a few mm. You may not have it anymore but a caliper might be able show that. Looking at the wave form you would want to check the two lobes on that pulley that are the closest to each other. It is interesting to see how just a slight difference in tolerances can throw this whole system out of whack. I for sure need to get a better scope. I study EE and have one of those old analog scope from the 80's. Does the job very well for how old it is but doesn't have any features like data saving like yours does. I wonder if I would have been able to see that but scope or not I think this problem required a lot of previous knowledge of cars to even consider using a scope to check for the problem.
Eric, I have a thought on this, a slack belt will allow the cam to lag, then jump ahead as the lobes pass under the rockers. I have seen this physically happen when rolling an engine over manually. If this lag/jump ahead happens when the trigger is passing the sensor, it would leave a wide pulse. I'm wondering if it was the belt. I always use honda belts btw, as you said they are cheap. And you're right in my opinion that you would not have found this without a scope. No one on youtube even comes close to your knowledge.
So sad that I haven't been able to find someone to check out my PT Cruiser….now that you stopped laughing…transmission codes…couldn't get it to work..changed transmissions now stuck in.limp.modr but no codes. No one. Even the Chrysler dealer can't help. Sticks!!
One Cam pulley spoke was bent,from where the screwdriver was jammed under it and onto the head to loosen the bolt.
I love you man
Thanks dude. That machine is great. Cheap junk parts. Doing a job twice, what a money saver.
You are an awesome technician. Thank you again.
Could it be that the second tab on the back of the cam gear was a thousand or so wider than the other two giving you a wider wave form reading?
I think it was just the pulley. The signal pads looked wider on the aftermarket. This would give a wider signal. But I guess we'll never know…..
smokin good diagnosis man you are right a good scope is a necessity sadly i cant afford one to play with lol
excellent diagnosis. well done.
it could have been diagnosed without a scope using the same machines used to measure bent pipes during manufacturing (intentionally bent). Where a camera array and various lasers measure the 3D objects exact dimensions and the 3D object is compared to the original blueprints, the operator has a simple touchscreen with the scan and can flip it around, areas that differ from the blueprints are marked towards red with severity with data attached. Accurate down to 0.01mm . The error with the original pulley would be obvious.
Oh its a simple setup that costs around a million USD or two, and would require the original manufactuers blueprints used for the specific part as well. Oh and the time of tearing down the engine and scanning all the parts litearlly, until you find the erroring component, small feat yeah.
Absolutely awesome 👏 video! Thank you for having a channel!
Imagine if this guy gives up & says he doesn't know what is wrong with it? Just call the crusher & have it picked up & find something else.
I can hold my own with cars but this guy just blows me away. I learned something here. Stick to OEM timing components. How many DIY would realize that was the issue? NONE. Lucky to have a guy around like this.
Awesome!
Eric, you have no quit in you, A true Master , a pleasure to watch! Thank you for sharing.
This. Vehicle would not have been properly repaired without a scope and even with a scope I may have missed the slight difference between the cam and crank thanks for all your information
A parts changer is a mechanic a technician is qualified to make Diagnostics
Where did you plug the scope in order to see the signals? Green horn one here
Eric O’, No Crack! I Grabbed the image of the two Pulleys, and put them in my paint program. Then I drew lines on each side of the pads up to the Teeth. The one by itself lined up with the high part of the tooth on Both. But the two that were close together were different. On the Old they lined up with a Low Part. On the new they lined up with the High part. If both Pulleys have the same number of teeth and pitch and the Pads are the same degrees apart, then they should all line up the same. Not sure how to send you the image.
And the moral of this story is " leave after market spares on the dealers shelf. Only buy genuine spares its cheaper in the long run.