All right folks. F250 Super Duty 2011. no exhaust rotted out, intermittent stall. Customer states he had another shop.

they diagnosed it as a bad fuel. Oh yeah, fuel pump is a bad fuse box. Um, so we brought it here to have the fuse box replaced, but um I guess we're going to diagnose it first to see what's really wrong with it. Um, the other shot states that they could not get a new fuse box for it, therefore they couldn't fix it.

So I see it got towed in Um and it was either completely dead battery. so I threw a charger on it, put it on nuclear, started it, parked it from my bay here and it ran for about two minutes and then quit and then I started install again. Start install runs for a few minutes and quits. Um and I don't know why yet.

So I just plugged into it, wanted to see what uh, what if any codes it has in it. We got some communication codes in the instrument cluster for losing communication with airbag trailer brake in ABS Got some low voltage battery codes lost to come with ECM and the body module. a bunch of communication codes, battery codes, all kinds of stuff. Um I'll tell you what we're gonna do.

there's no codes in the engine computer. however. I'm going to clear the code driver because I have no idea who's been fiddling with what the other sucky part is. The truck has no exhaust on it.

The other sucky part is I'm sick of the dog. So I've got my exhaust hose rigged up underneath it. as I can to keep from killing ourselves. There's no codes in it.

Let's get it started. Let's Let It stall see if we obtain any codes that are of any useful information and then come up with a plan. Oh he's getting sick. Got 115 000 at it.

Look everything looks normal when it's running. you know? so nothing weird, but it just does that. Just quit. I heard some dingers going off in here I don't see anything weird.

Let's see if it threw any codes. Well I quit there and we'll come up with another idea. So I just had to run again. it quit I was running the fault scan and I see we lost communication with the PCM so I don't know.

it doesn't look like anybody has a code. so I'm going to rescan it right now. just see if anybody's talking here so we're still. We still can't talk to the PCM fault scan it again.

Okay, so technically it shouldn't start right now I wouldn't think yeah, we got a note start right now. Okay, good, well that gave us some good direction. We need to fuse boxes bad. but what we need to trace down is why we lost communication with PCM Why doesn't PCM talk is it data bust down? I Don't think so because other modules on the high speed can can talk about.

Scan it again here just to see if it come back to life and it hasn't. I'm going to shut the key off and turn it back on at this point I Haven't cycled the key yet and see if our PCM comes back to life select key off. Go back on. All right, she's still dead.

We do have a check engine light so that's good and currently we can speak to the PCM now and we've got codes and other modules. Let's just see if it starts now. Okay, interesting, it will not start. so I'm wondering maybe this is a network issue to scan it again.

Okay, we can talk to the P uh to the powertrain control module but it still does not start. Let's see what we have for codes: I'm just trying to get some direction here. Uh, you know PCM no codes, instrument cluster, loss of calm with Abs, trailer, brake and restraint and it's Mitchvac must come with Abs. Okay, so I got to figure this out.

what to take to start it? We could obviously talk to the PCM what's it not seeing that it wants to see? So before I dig too deep here I see I was just in the PCM bin that we can talk to it and just seeing if there's any data pids that we can gather information from and it appears that it sees the key. Okay, let me just put it. see if I can reach it here. put it in the crank position so it says key position for cert indicated on that's off but it's not enabling the start relay.

Um, foreign. So what we need to do: I'm not familiar with Ford design with GM's but we're not going to let that deter us What we're going to do as a fault scan here now: I See, you know we can't talk to the ABS which I think we were initially the restraint control module we can't talk to in this A-pim accessory protocol interface module. This is probably what I'm going to look into I don't care about stuff over here. this apim we got to see what that's all about.

I can't imagine. Okay, just did a bunch of beeping. let me just false scan it here. I can't imagine.

Okay, see, we lost at PCM now so it keeps beeping up here on the dash and doing different things and then we lose different modules. um I I just I Can't imagine that ABS is keeping us from starting or the restraint control module. but I don't know what this Apim thing is so we're going to check into that to see what that controls. Um, maybe I'll leave the key off for a little while and see if things come back to see.

you know, something getting hot. Oops sorry, there's something getting hot shutting down or what's the case? Um, we've got to come up with a plan. All right folks, here's my plan. Uh, we know what works.

When it works, everything works okay obviously. So what? I'm thinking that this vehicle doesn't have any pimp so I did a little poking on that I got to answer your question. It's just more entertainment type crap rating of stuff. Um, but it appears to me when when it stalls you know we lose the ABS we lose the steering column Patrol module we lose the restraint module.

So I'm thinking once it dies, let's come up with a plan. I'm going to do some looking. you know, well while waiting for a guy to see him do any of these share or common power, you know what? What's the common denominator here and the other bit of information I want to get is you know what's the data Network look like well it's working, that's can high lower it looks pretty normal to me, trigger here and then change our time a little bit. So right here it's acting up I mean it looks like normal data pack.

It doesn't look like when it's when it's acting up it doesn't look like something's you know taken out the network and that's why I wanted to see it. Does you know the whole thing? go crop which I didn't think it did but you know you could hear it back. There's something screwing up just a minute ago. it doesn't take as long as it stalls, but I'm just trying to gather a little bit of data and then go up a test plan and just okay once you just shut off on the road, haven't touched the key yet, it looks like we can still talk to everything.

Awesome! I mean it means dark I know it seems like a big fat waste I know a lot of you guys but I need to get some crack there I need to get direction which I think I've got a little right now I'm just trying to reconfir. Let's do a little poking here and I was looking at. these are just my hieroglyphics, but ABS Airbag Steering Control Module those are what these are the three modules that lose. you know, fall and that.

So I figure it fixed either one of those when you fix a whole car because when it works, you know everything works clearly. So I did some poking I'm assuming we're losing a common power source and I found the common uh denominator I guess if you will, between the ABS and the airbag, this runs off fuse number 33 to 10 am down in the body module and this runs off views 54. a 10 amp fuse in the under hood fuse box now. so Fuse 54 I'll show you how these link together.

Fuse 54 here comes down and feeds ABS Okay and that gets that fuse gets its power from the runs this Run start relay which actually Powers up this whole Lego fuse is 53, 56, 52, 50 55 49 So that powers up a bunch of stuff including the powertrain control module uh, training module if it was a 6.7 you know, transfer case module. so it Powers up a bunch of stuff. but if you remember we don't lose, come with the PCM but that may not be the only power source going to the PCM so that doesn't concern me too much. And then I'll show you how I made the connection here I will find Fuse number 33 Fuse 33 which is a the 10 amp.

Let's find it here here it's at 15. Let me just bear with me here folks. I'll find it again for you Here we go: Fuse 33 that feeds the restraint control module which we also lost power with. If we follow that up, where does it get this power from? It gets its power from fuse number 56.

which is on the same leg of fuses that Fuse 54 is on which also feeds the ABS. So my thought process is exactly what I have right here. It's just passed away. Okay, you have to deal with the creepy spool here.

I don't feel good today so I don't feel like doing anything else. But so here's our row of fuses: 49.50 51, 52, 53 54. So they got Johnny Cash on one piece at a time 55 and 56.. So that's a whole row and it gets its power from as we saw some kind of relay.

Yeah, Run Run start relay. So I thought for poop and laughter. let's tap into this with a test light which I've already done. It's got setting over here, not even in a fuse hole, just there's a bus bar that feeds this whole row of fuses.

Let's start it and see once it hiccups do we get a flickering light? You know what I mean assuming it still runs which I think it does, you'd probably be smarter to put a meter on this. It's not a light I Hope you see it I Think that's enough for me fellas. Um, we saw a flicker. So instead of just sitting here waiting for it to completely die, we need to determine we know what relay that leg of fuses is powered from and we need to see why it's flickering.

You know, are we losing the load? Side power to the relay is the control side of the relay dropping out? It's just a bad fuse box. We've got some crows in there and things are acting funky. Oddly enough, it's not strong right now, but that's what we need to do next. Which relay is that in the fuse box? and then Chuck the pot? you know, low tide and the control side.

Hopefully it better not fix itself because that would suck. but we need to figure out now that we have some. Direction Well, I'm looking up that information I'll just leave the key on so we'll just do key on, engine off. and uh, because when I was looking up, you know to try to find the uh, the common interest between the modules there.

it was over here clicking and carrying on and doing all kinds of crap. So I'll just leave the key on and see if it still acts up. Maybe we don't even need this thing running. Uh to figure this out.

And honestly, the smarter thing to do here instead of a test light would have been to stick a meter on it because that's going to catch our our glitch. But I think you guys saw I saw it. That's enough. That's enough for me boys hope.

I'm not getting some poor Direction here. but uh, what do you think? it was half a brain today? Where's my mouse? There it is Run Start relay. We learned that this leg of fuses here putting the test light on make some flicker or mix that's like flicker. Therefore, this relay is coming unlatched.

This is a bad relay or is it control side or load side? Well, fortunately for us, the power here that feeds the load side is also the same power source so to speak that feeds the control side. Because fuse 45 just comes down, does a little loop around town and back to the control side. Then what controls it is an Fet transistor inside the body control module. But the sucky part is this thing's been sitting here with the key on it I ain't heard so much of a flicker or anything out of it.

I think the buy modules on these trucks have issues with water getting in them. So I think what I would do if it was me is we want to see are we losing power? You know, are we losing power here? Let's do our same test at Fuse 45. see if it flickers, if that flickers and you know that loses power on the control side and power on the load side So which just flicker? Damn we missed it. We should have freaking meter on it and it's very beep over there so let's do that.

Let's uh, let's check Fuse 45, see if we have a constant power on it and then go from there. we're just probed our leads in there I believe Fuse 54. Oops Yeah, 54 and 45 is what I'm into and I got it Just uh. we got the Alto I got it just playing up on here.

He's playing there we go. So now we got a live feed there. 10 seconds per Vision Lots of time on the screen and we can see right now they're holding and wherever it is 13 volts or whatever you got 13.6 because I've got a power supply on it I'm just gonna leave the key on and hopefully we see one of these two drop out and then get a little more information. And just as a reminder, fuse 45 that were tapped into.

that's a power feed for this control side which I Doubt we're losing because we would lose lots of other things. I'm on the uh I'm on this side of the fuse. Okay, for what it's worth, confuse 54, you know? So it's basically this whole league of picking them fuses I Just chose 54 this one here because that powers the ABS So let's see what happens. Hope for the best when I started it and I didn't make it to the end of that first screen I freaking don't have a big enough buffer so I just lost that because apparently it only keeps the channel.

That's what happens when you equipment you're not familiar with a lot of times. I was drinking I was just going to show you guys what I lost it new 15 minutes across the screen all the way. but yeah I know I caught it the green tray dropped out which is 54. so okay, they're just that kind of sucks I should have used the Pico Let's give them a little more familiar with I'd use this just because we had it out.

but let's stop. This is there we go so we can see we had a drop out in our green Trace but not the red tray. So here we'll super enhanced here so it doesn't just look like a little wiggle that I do I'll be at momentarily. It was at the exact moment that the truck did its deal so the red Trace didn't drop out.

So looking at our wiring diagram, we did not lose power on this side of the relay. at least going to the relay out of the relay. Yes, we lost it. Then we lose it because it relay is bad.

Or do we lose it because we lost this control side. That's what we need to check. Next is we need to check that's not touch screen you Ding Dong, We need to check this control wire. uh at the fuse box or you know is this relay junk I've been hesitant to touch Really? I don't even know where it lives but as soon as you touch something that's fixed I Wanted to gather some data First Look According to the Internet and service data relay number 48 which I put a little white dot because I wasn't going to remember so we can yank these out of here.

we just had them sitting there. sorry about the noise. exit I'm not fuse 50 or 48 so that should be this little guy right here which we can verify. Let me get a test light.

we can verify that right here. Make sure the keys are all right. All right Keys on over our wires here that deal with sculpted. that kind of pisses me off that would burn my biscuits if I Was waiting all day for some finding a car to hit pause thinking it was in the buffer and then it wasn't Okay so this fuse.

this rule fuses is hot and they should be not once we pull that relay if we pull the right one. fuse 48 which I guess is this guy on everything I read okay we take that little fella out of there. This roll fuse is dead now. Negative: Ghost Rider 48.

move the right one. Nope you Ding dong, you pulled number 74. this is why we verify stuff I just tricking you guys tripped you I don't know if you oh what really this is but what? I'm after we're after number 48. which I guess this guy oh I heard that click when I pulled it out.

clicky clack. You can make it make some Buzzy noises. That's fun and now this roll fuses should be dead. Get what? I can touch yes ma'am and then we plug it back into the lighter up.

sure does. look at us. Go! so we need to identify who's who here. it's only four Pronger so it's pretty easy.

We should have two Powers down here. one of these, maybe this one. yep that one and that one. Yep we got two Powers down here.

he stick my head in here. Yeah the terminals look clean I Don't know if I can tell you or not we've got two powers and then our load and our control. I Guess we could always just jump the load, put a toggle switch on it, send this guy on its way. but we're not gonna.

let's get a relay jumper. So here's a relay jumper. It allows us to do some testing with it out of the box of course. I Don't know if the pins are right, but we're gonna find out.

So on this side, we got three and four. We have three and five. One is on the left. Okay, so let's look at this.

so pin three should be the power for the load. Yep, it is. That's number three. Yeah, three should be the power for the load.

If I jump for these two, it should turn everything on and it does foreign happy days. and then one of these, it's gonna be a power over here. So all we're concerned with. Okay, that one's got the power that one does not.

So that has to be the control side. So if I plug this in power, both of you should have power power power. and then that wire is our control which it must have ground. I'm just thinking out loud here folks.

Let me go. Shut this off. No, let's not screw around. Let's do this.

Let's take our scope here. while I'm in the water, we're gonna hook it to the control side of that relay. Let me get a little banana clip from here. We're gonna hook that to that relay and we're gonna check.

The control side of the relay is the body module knocking out the control side, in which case we should see a power. Spike We should see the power be reapplied. I'm going to draw draw a little diagram because I'm sure everybody's sleeping at this point. Let me show you what's up.

Try to explain this for you. The best I can the testing we've done already? We know that the throw of fuses is losing power. We know the power going into the relay is not being lost, at least at the fuse. It's not because this fuse feeds both sides that fuse doesn't flicker.

well. these fuses do. So that narrows it down. either a bad relay or the control side.

We're tapped into the control side right now and key off engine off. We got 12 volts coming in. should be 12 volts coming out when the body module turns this wire on, it should pull it to ground. If we're losing intermittent control from the body module, we should go from ground.

We should see a high Spike when that high Spike comes along that would disable the relay and then make these flicker. So that's what we need to know is are we losing control? and so I'm hooked up. Our red lead is on that control and you can see it's at 12 volts. okay.

And then our green Trace I've got hooked back to the fuse because this is going to tell us if all of a sudden our green traits if that one flickers. but the red Trace doesn't bad relay if they both Flicker at the same time bad control side. So let's turn the key on. We can see our red Trace go to zero.

You know our Green Tree should go high right? Yeah, so our green trays went High Our red trees went below. A lot of weight for that stuff. Well, it's not a Life Works folks. I've been sitting here running forever like this.

extremes of data. the customer being on it 60 seconds, but it was acting up a lot more probably prior to us touching the relay. The Bad Relay: It's hard to say this is what I wanted to gather as much data as I could prior to touching anything. Now it's seemingly fixed, but what this guy's gonna do is obviously get a new relay because that makes the most sense.

and then driving just driving. dude. if it does, you know where to proceed immediately with our car. So I'm just gonna let the scope I'm gonna go eat some lunch, but we're at the inevitable.

you touch something now it's fixed spot. which I assumed we were going to get at and that is why we took the approach we did do I regret it. No. Did I know that every viewer watching would have went right to the relay first and changed it because that's what it always is.

Yeah I don't have to wait to read that in the comment section. However, I never approach things like that because I've learned. you get in there and start fiddling Now you don't know what you did and that's what would have happened if you change the relay or if you just went in there and just started touching stuff. No, the problem's fixed.

What'd you do? You don't know and that's the problem. Go start bringing around with fuses and stuff you don't know, You don't know. Yeah I don't know. That's what I'm getting at I'm sick I'm a little pissy so excuse me for that.

But what we do know now is I can justify putting a relay in it and if the customer has a complaint again, like hey dude, it's still still doing its thing. which I doubt because I mean it was doing its thing like pretty steadily when we brought it in. Um, but if he says it's still doing his thing I know exactly where to begin I know I can skip everything, pull the relay out, stick the jumper on there, and see, are we losing the control? Side of that point Which I doubt unless the body module just miraculously fixed itself I doubt I mean there's still smelling crap dripping off the car, so if it's got water issues and it would still have it. Um, so I'm gonna wait.

nap will be here with that Really? I'm putting in and then we're just going to flush this toilet because I assume it's gonna run at that point and that's probably why the other shop said that it needs a fuse box because I got a little more information from the guy what they were doing, how they diagnosed it as they were hitting the fuse box. He said when he would hit the fuse box, he could get it to quit there for you need a new fuse box? So that was the other shops approach that with their diagnostic process. I guess from what I'm being told which is a crappy one at Best but at least it got them in the right area. So if they put a fuse box in it, yeah, I probably would have fixed it because it would have had a good relay in it.

So we're gonna do. I Know what you can do? comments, questions, concerns I Know what? Let's pop the cover off that relay just a minute. Let's be honest, that's where everybody wants. It's hot, it's nice and hot.

I Know that let's see if we get lit off because she's still old school. old school mechanical part number from Napa's AR 6472 accessory relay Get this little guy out of there see if we see any burned up Jiggy Witchers on the contact here I Wish this guy's too blind to see anyways I don't really, But anyhow, that's what it really looks like. on the inside. there's the coil for your control side.

There's a little contact switch down here. That's where the load side comes across. where the bottom picks up. I Guess Okay, a little resistor there.

That's your control side to your load side and that's it I Guess so Anyhow, questions comments into the: Facebook I Can do it. You can do it. We can all do it. Thanks for watching.

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