Part 2: Testing for BENT VALVES! Teardown Chrysler 2.4 2010 PT Cruiser https://youtu.be/SIkpZBjieD0
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Customer Customer States Mechanic Fails Engine Transmission Gas Diesel off road race 4x4 street car daily driver scam dealership dealer technician how to
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Customer Customer States Mechanic Fails Engine Transmission Gas Diesel off road race 4x4 street car daily driver scam dealership dealer technician how to
Hello everybody! Good day to you! Pardon the grinding noise. Welcome back everybody! Glad you guys are here! I've got in my hands the dreaded Chrysler keys and a scan tool because we had a PT Cruiser towed in here. It is. this one's white I think it's an O4.
looks like an O4 uh custom States vehicle does not start cranks or doesn't start or doesn't crank or doesn't do anything. Let's find out today. Top in this unit and see what's going on here. Let's see.
key in the ignition, stockings, the engine. nothing. hmm okay, no sounds, no dings, no nothing. uh what is this? We have some Clues Look there's a battery and there's a module sitting here.
Why is there a PCM sitting on the seat? Hold on here. This just got worse than I thought it was popping easy Hood See what's going on? Oh real quick. let's check our year. oh my God that is not okay I was in grave danger.
You guys see that. Hang on. Hang on Everything Stopped. There's really only one thing to do in a situation like this.
Thank you sorry guys, You're evicted. Oh I'm scared I'm so scared I got him I got him. Let me finish them off. Sorry guys, it's you or me.
It's not gonna be me. okay. now that uh that little obstacles have handled see what's under the Bonnet here of our Chrysler product I got so nervous I never even checked what year this thing was. Hmm well there's a PCM that's in it.
so why does it have one on the ground or on the seat around the floor? Okay, well. Prop Rod engaged I Guess the first thing we need to do is get a battery in this thing since the battery has been removed. I Don't know why, but we're probably gonna find out. Okay, so anyway, now that little Terrors with wings are gone.
uh, we have a oh wow, it was way off base. This is a 2010. it was built in 1209. Okay, well.
let's go fetch that battery, drop that thing into place and then we'll I Guess we'll go from there. I'm scared of this car now. There's crispy Critters everywhere that want to sting me. Come here.
Die Hard Battery here. Guys help me out. pick this up. They're heavier than they look.
Wander this thing on over. So let's see. we got red cables that's pository. black cable that's negatory.
See here. Yeah, let's back up for the bird's eye view. I'm gonna need two hands to get in here. Let's see if I can't squeeze this guy in.
Oh nope. not gonna happen. I need to pull this air box out I Just don't have enough space. Come here box.
Are you bolted in or what filter removed now? it's just got rubber grommets that kind of holds in. Seriously, it's not a good start. PT Cruiser Not a good start there we go. Flip all that stuff out of the way.
you stay right there. okay battery going down rare again Mr Positive connection, negative connection. There we go. Now let's head into the cabin and see if this thing's gonna power up there right there.
What? There's a Survivor no way I saw him in there. he's in the back hide now. Okay, just to make sure I'm watching you All right? Okay, we've got ding-lings and we also have 95 279 miles on the odometer stockings the engine. Okay I don't know. this thing doesn't sound that healthy. Sounds like it has no compression. Let's check a compression tester or check or compression. but first I'm gonna pull this oil cap off.
Nope. I can't see anything I was hoping to be able to see the timing belt or the cams. at least maybe I can see if they're moving. I would like to see if the belt is good and then I'm gonna pull at least out or at least uh, the number one and the number four spark plugs.
and uh, we'll do a compression test and kind of go from there. I Think that's really all what needs to happen here. Pull this dude out right here. Come out spark plug wire and that's enough to get into that hole.
Okay, yeah, so what we're gonna do. We're gonna push this thing in. It's really loud out here and it's hot out here. the sun's out and it's bright out and I want to go in there I've got a third stall now and I'm gonna use it.
Oh that was I had to kill some wasps. Yeah, all right. key on in it neutral. Let's get to pushing.
Troy you go out back I'm gonna push some steer. Okay, turn the wheel first. Are you ready? Yep. Rock and some to get her started.
Here we go. Dude, this is hard I need to get like a like a lawn mower, tractor or something for this kind of thing. The side by side out here. No, it's too big.
that's for driving in my pond. Oh yeah, a little more, a little more, a little more I know we're going uphill. All right, we're in. all right.
This is great. Now we have a third stall that way when something's in this stall, then something's in that stall. I Can still do work and that's fantastic. Alrighty, Let's uh, break out the compression tester kit right here.
I think it's this red one. Yeah for old school Matco compression tester about this thing in 2004 I think a long time ago. Anyway, we're gonna need this one and we're gonna need to gauge. Come here guys.
I'm out Schrader valve still installed okay and then I'm gonna need my spark and plug socket ratchet and an extension. Let's see. Yep also about that in like 2002. It's like one of the original lineup for the Duralast line from way back in the day when AutoZone first started selling tools.
and yeah, I'll take my green ratchet. That's the one I Want my electron ratchet? Where are you Green Boy got it Troy's laughing at me Green boy, Green boy I don't even know what that means He he thinks Stevens he knows what it means I don't know what I mean Anyway, I caught the tools over here. Let's pull those plugs out and see what we got going on in here. Put that stuff down I Need my cart Troy has gotten geared my car also.
in fact, he's commandeered three cards. that one that one and that one. Which one of these is my cart can I have a cart can I have a cart I Need a cart I like my red one I'm taking this one taking my red one. All right. You take your stuff myself. Yeah, you get your stuff. leave me my cart back. Yes sir, you are evicted from the Red Roll cart.
This one is mine. There are many like it, but this one is mine. I Mean don't get me wrong, you can still keep cleaning stuff off of it. but this is.
this is for my personal use. I'm not being mean, it's in the job description. Clean up my roll carts because I'm not going to. So anyway, let's get ourselves in position here.
Grab our spark plug socket now. Like I said, we can't do number two and number three because intake is in the way and we will have to pull the intake off to get to those. So hopefully I can get some results out of uh, just number one and number four. Pull this guy off.
survey says plug looks okay. That's not bad. It's a Bosch platinum decent plug. Swipe off that debris, make it nice shiny.
All we do is screw this thing down until the O-ring makes a seal at the cylinder head. You can then connect our gauge. Here we go now. I'm gonna go inside of the cabin and crank the engine.
You guys watch the game. All right You ready? Show me compression Zero. NADA That's not okay. What's that about? Okay, we have no compression on number four.
so we've either got a broken piston, broken crankshaft, broken camshaft, or maybe a broken timing belt or something like that. Let's go over here and check on number one. Same procedure. Unclick the plug it out.
there we go. These weren't very tight either. How's this plug looking? Yeah, Similar. not in horrible shape.
Let's see. Let's get our probe in there and connect the gauge and I'll repeat procedure. You guys watch the gauge and I will go and crank the engine tonight. What do we got here? Anything? Nothing.
Something Zero That is not good. Not good at all. Okay, let's uh. let's check and make sure the crank's actually turning.
It could have a broken crankshaft. So what I'm gonna do is we're gonna look down here at one of the accessories. The alternator is what I can see most readily. So let me get a light down in that hole I can shine it on that Nader see it way way way down there.
We're gonna keep an eye on that belt and see if that's going to turn all right. Troy's reaching in. he's gonna crank this thing over. We're watching that alternator belt to see if that thing turns.
Go ahead. keep going. Yes, it does. Okay, all right, you're good sir.
Thank you. Okay, so the crank's not broken because the starters in the back over here the front of the crank turns the accessories turn so we know we don't have the broken crankshaft. Let's get all this stuff out of the way. We don't need this uh, cluttering up the dash I Think next up. I'm gonna pull back this cover right here and uh, we're gonna check and see if that timing belt is turning. If the belt's Turning then I will speculate that we have maybe a broken camshaft or something like that all right now seeing as how I was concerned that uh, that timing belt may have been broken I'm gonna pull this cover back some and take this bolt out. We're just gonna see if that belt is uh, it's in there or not. um I believe this is an interference engine so that timing belt broke, uh, it would have probably bent valves in the uh in the engine and that would not be okay.
We don't like that valves come out. Screw there. We go. Okay, let's peel this back a little bit and we have a timing belt in there.
Okay, so the belt did not break. This is good. Go ahead and crank it. Oh oh, do it again.
Continue cranking and don't stop. Yep, she done okay real quick. I Took the one bolt out of this cover. There's another one in the back down below.
I Pulled those out. Let me try to get this cover out and Troy's gonna crank this again. I Want to see these camshafts? See what's going on inside this engine here? Don't touch it yet. Dude, my fingers are in there.
Oh, come out cover. Got it? Okay, All right. go ahead. Crank it.
Yeah, yeah. something all right. now. You see right there how that, uh, that belt was kind of vibrating some.
Go ahead. Oh, you're good. You're good. So that tells me that the pulley uh, is that is on the crank that runs this belt is turning so that pulley didn't Shear off I Am speculating that, uh, what happened here is that the ribs on the belt broke off down at the crank pulley and the crank's just spinning.
but nothing else is spinning. It's not okay. I Have an idea. Let's see if we can't turn these cams around, uh, by hand.
Well, with a wrench. let's see if we can't turn these cams and maybe we can get the broken spot on the Belt to uh to show its ugly face and confirm what exactly has happened here. Let's try it. Well it's working and now it's not working.
Okay, the bolt started to loosen up. Maybe if I try to go the other way. oops flashlight. let's try it the other way and see if I can on that slip time.
Um I can't get my wrench in there. Let's get a smaller wrench. You know, let's try this one. it's a little more lower profile.
okay I Feel something happening here I Felt the crank turn so it looks like the ribs on the Belt have caught. but I don't see any damaged ribs yet. See here, a little more clipping. The spark plugs are out of it.
otherwise it might build compression and may not want to turn. Oh yeah, there it is. Found it. Yepper look at that right there.
bare spot on the Belt Some more light in there. you guys can see. look down there. see the belt right there.
The belt is smooth, not okay. All right. Yeah, let's try that with a little bit of Zoom action. we can see the belt right here. and if we look down, we can see the ribs on that belt and you can see where they're starting to tear away. Look at that. Yeah, so what happened is this thing went to start one day or crank and it started tearing the teeth off of that timing belt. It stripped them clean and it cranked and cranked and cranked and I'm very certain that it probably bent the valves.
We would have to pull the cylinder head off to confirm. But I Do believe this is an interference engine. Let's go actually look that up. Let's go find the all data.
We'll look it up and see if this is actually this particular engine's interference. If it's not interference, we can probably put a belt on to retime it and it will survive if this is an interference engine meaning that the valves and the Pistons are capable of hitting each other. Some engines the valves don't come down far enough for the Piston to be able to meet it, and some engines do, and if they're not in exact time, if the valve is down, when the Piston comes up, it'll hit that, it'll hit the valve and it'll bend it, and then that valve will never seal against the head again. So at the bare minimum, you got to pull the head off, replace the valves, have new seats, reground or reinstalled, and then put it all back together with a new head gasket, new head bolts, new oil, new coolants, and all that good stuff.
plus the new belts and timing set. Water pump Etc and then then it may live again. However, the problem with that is when you get into a car that this that is this old, sometimes the value does not exist. Now that's not for me to determine, that's for uh, the owners of said vehicles to determine.
Uh, but it is a possibility I can tell you right now if that was my car and it needed an engine that would be a no-go for me and I would just throw the thing away. But let's go look up some service data and find out. Okey-doke So I'm in the work order in Techmetric. That's my POS system.
I've got a 2010 Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4 liter four-cylinder and here's our VIN number right down here. So I'm going to copy that then and we're going to pull up a new menu. We're gonna pull up all data which is uh, right there. that's all of the data.
Come on all data. I'm gonna open this up, input the VIN and internet. You know what? I I could just ask Google is a 2.4 liter TT Cruiser engine and enter interference engine. Is it or is it not? Tell me.
Now they run semi-interference engines. Okay, the path of the valves will not enter the path of the Piston. It is possible for the exhaust valves and the intake valves to contact, at which point you end up with a bent valve with bent valve stems. Okay, yeah, this interference engine.
I've run into this before with Chryslers and the shop manager made me put a timing belt in it anyway, knowing or having been informed that it's an interference engine. it was a similar situation and the thing had misfires on like one, three and four so at least three of those valves got bent. I mean if you rely on that look, it says uh, repair pal says yes, it is an interference engine Went out to start, start, installed, tried to restart. did nothing. Everyone tell me it's time about blah blah yeah, it's time about it's junk Needs cylinder head. You've ruined it now. I Suppose I could like smoke test it to find out without tearing it apart. um I'd have to pull the valve cover off of it and then probably pull the cams out that way both intake and exhaust valves on all four cylinders uh, become closed and are supposed to seal off and then I can pump some smoke into the combustion chamber.
and if I see smoke coming out of the intake side or the exhaust side, that's going to confirm to me that there is in fact a bent valve because there would be a leak there. However, I don't think I'm gonna do that today. I Don't know if we're gonna go down that road because I'm I'm like 99.99994 Positive that this thing has some bent valves here. Let us ask the Google machine if, uh, any of these things are for sale here.
Let's see if I can't find a replacement. See what we're looking at? We can get a a newish one from Jegs that's a thirty five hundred dollars. You can get an eBay refurbished one for 23. Parts I Love it when they sell used parts on the interwebs and then they take a really nice stock photo.
but what you actually get is some junkyard pull out and not the actual photo of what you uh, what you're shopping for. Here's one for nine hundred dollars. It's probably not that bad. Well here's what we got to do.
I need to call my guy see what they want to do with this. See if uh, we're gonna replace this or throw it away or tear it down and try to repair it. There's there's many ways to uh to remedy the situation, but it all depends on what the owner of the vehicle wants. So I opened up the work order again.
Let's just for fun. See how much labor it takes? Oh no, my Tripod was on the nine. Let's see how much labor it takes. Uh, replace this engine Eng and we're going to go to the Labor Guide Engine Overhaul Valve grind, Compression test, Leak inspection, Engine Assembly remove and replace.
There we go. They have remove and install and remove and replace. That's 8.8 hours for r r Let's see what R and I is I lost It Remove and replace is remove old engine replaced with new engine and then remove and install is remove old engine and then reinstall old engine. Like let's say You're Gonna I don't know, reseal the thing you would use the labor op for removing, install and then add on any additional labor Ops that were applicable to the situation and I lost my place.
Where do I go R9 There we go. it's at 7.3 so yeah, not much of a difference. So let's uh, go back into that. I'm gonna pull it up and just build it on the work order. that way we kind of have a baseline cost and I don't have to do this work again since we're here doing it right now. Sure, we go back. I'm misfiring in my crane brainium and lost my place. Okay, let's see what long block, remove and install? See.
Look at that. That's 13.5 hours. So that's to pull the block out, transfer over all the parts onto a new one, and then install the new one. So let me go with that one.
Add that to the job. 3.5 hours. That's a that's a lot of Labor that's two thousand dollars in labor. No, that's that's a lot of money.
Here's the thing. let's add on the part. So we're gonna add a part add part right here and we're gonna do that manually so engine can't spell who opened the door engine again I Guess you discard part number one because I don't have an actual part number and let's see here. one to three hundred dollars.
We'll go with that. The medium priced one. Twenty three hundred dollars. There we go.
Twenty three hundred dollars, not twenty three thousand dollars Save! So we're at like four thousand, thirty eight dollars to put a used engine in this car. That's that's asinine. What else are we gonna need? We're gonna have to put in a timing belt right? So we gotta add a part. We're gonna look up a timing belt timing belt.
see what we have here. Timing Belt kit, Timing belt, Water pump. There's one. we'll pick that one.
Okay, so I threw some oil and some coolant on there and there's and then there's the uh, the water pump timing belt kit. There's probably 100 gonna be more parts involved, but this is already with a used engine at almost five thousand dollars. I Don't know if that car is worth that kind of investment. What do you guys think? Let me know in the comment section down below.
but I think we're all done here. That's not an official estimate. Uh, however, that's a good ballpark kind of range for what something like that would cost. And that's really messed up too, because my labor rate is actually less than everybody else's labor rate.
I'm uh, I'm one of the bottom tiered labor people uh, in town. that's also kind of wild. I Think if you were at like a maybe the dealer where they were charging like 180 or or 200 an hour, that could be like a six thousand dollar work order to repair a 12 year old car. I uh I don't know I don't gravity I don't know I don't think she's A in my opinion I Don't think she's worth it.
See if it has oil in it? Yeah, it's got dirty oil in it. Not a good sign. All right guys. I think we've seen enough of this particular.
PT Cruiser uh I don't know what's going to be in store for the future of this car. I've gotta gotta let my guy know. build the estimate officially. uh, fine tune everything.
Get all the the knick-knacky items on there and uh I guess we're gonna go from there I Don't think this is something we're going to invest heavily in I could be wrong I've been surprised before, but uh, kind of based off of you know what it is and what it costs to make it go vroom vroom again. it may not be cost effective to go down that road again. I'm just speculating I don't know, but uh, we shall see. So uh. that being said, I'm gonna go ahead and close this video out right about now. I'll do that as always. but I Thank each and every one of you for watching this video. Certainly hope you enjoyed this video.
If you did enjoy this video, please feel free to let me know about that in the comment section down below. Tap that like button while you're down there. And most importantly, do not forget to have yourselves a great day! See you guys later! Enter Chrysler PT Cruiser In the video into transmission.
Those PT's are heavier than they appear. Lost a timing belt a couple weeks ago and pushed it by myself out of the traffic flow.
After your follow-up video I have to wonder if the original problem was a broken timing belt but was misdiagnosed by customer to be a bad ECU. Customer swapped in a bad ECU (VIN mismatch, not allowing the car to start) and when that didn't work he brought it to you. You fix the belt and it doesn't start until you swap back in the original ECU.
With the belt not being broken it makes me think that valves wouldn't be bent because for that to happen intake and exhaust valves must collide with each other. Since the belt was missing teeth at the crankshaft and seemed otherwise tight, how would the valves collide?
Dude the belt is bad, likely happened during cold start up, why are you turning the cams? If the valves weren't bend during the stipping event then they sure are now.
You need some training bro or maybe just more field-time.
Why, in hell's name, didn't you try a belt ?????
You need the golf cart car pusher.
It'a a shame people pay so much for vehicles these days yet it takes so little to go wrong then the vehicle is trash. Such is progress I guess.
Here you can buy another pt for about $2500 with same or less miles id wreck it at your estimate to repair
In mexico thay did one of a family member cost them 1,200$ Dlls car stil running today.
mopar baby
I'd rather take a 1.8 liter Toyota with 500,000 miles on it then a new Chrysler, Ford, GM, or Stellantis product. (Because I would not be able to sleep at night if someone gave me a new American car from today and then gave it away and leave them stranded.).
My read of that is : Pistons DON'T interfere with the Valves but the Valves CAN hit each other .
That Timing Belt stripped at the Crank BUT was still Tensioned . Ergo the Cams were still correctly timed to EACH OTHER .
That Engine simply needed a Belt . 99.99994% . It was CERTAINLY worth the Smoke Test .
I would price a good used cylinder head and timing belt. Most likely, the cylinder head can be replaced, without removal of the engine.
It destroyed itself the day they stamped Dodge/Chrysler on it??!!
Was gonna watch it but the grinder noise was distracting.
Dodge/Chrysler are absolute junk. Mechanics with customers who have them have acquired a customer for life
Got quoted $10,310 CAD for a catalytic converter today for a Dodge Nitro from the dealership. Almost fell off my stool; with our shops mark up came out to 17K CAD
There isn't a Chrysler product on the planet worth $5000…! They're all garbage…!!! Thanks, keep up your awesomeness and go enjoy some nature today…! Don't forget to compliment someone today…
As soon as I seen wasps I said "grab the brakleen"
UGH those wasps god i hate when that happens! Lol
160+$/hr? And I thought our mechanics in Italy were expensive… I mean official Porsche dealers charge like 90$/h here. Normal ones 45… Regardless the huge taxes we have in here… Those money? Maybe Ferrari/Lamborgini dealers…
2010 PT Cruiser….5000.00…Meh that's all the car is worth in good condition at todays prices….well…Better than 15 to 20,000 for a new used genuine used junk…..LoL Probably go with it if the rest of the vehicle is sound…..Cheaper than gett'n another pig in the poke…..
Ray, you need 'ta get one of those battery powered vehicle pushers….
It's the anti-Chrysler!
I love how he just full sent the wasps to hell with brake clean.
I thought it was a 6.4 Powerstroke for a second
What about a valve job and new head gaskit and timing belt kit price ? I charge about $900 with parts included for that car
Its great that brake cleaner or carb cleaner kills wasps as fast as wasp killer.
We need a break clean can compilation video!
What is that god-awful noise in the background?
Why dodges used to have mitsubishi 4 cyl engines. Local dodge certified mechanic said my 50 dollar dodge colt 's motor would make a better trotline weight than engine did it for me. Pretty strong engine though even on 3 cylinders.
They never checked their headlight fluids
In this case, I just find another car
Get a forklift.
They're SO useful!
Insectophobia – I found a huge bug in my kitchen when I got home following a 3 month absenvce, but had no spray. Big glass over the top of it, and in the morning, slid a bit of cardboard under the glass, and flipped it over to my annoying neighbor's property.
Bug, what bug?
Isn't the first order of business is to look at the timing belt?…..
I love your videos and have a lot of respect for you being an actual good mechanic. Too many "mechanics" are con artists. I have to say that labor cost blows my mind. Do you have customers actually paying that in your area? In NY there's so much competition that some shops will swap an engine with a used j-yard engine for 5-600 (labor) bucks.
Junk it!!! Unless you find a real cheap used motor.
Couldn’t you just take off the oil fill cap and look in to see if the cams were turning or not
not as bad as the 2.7 Chrysler.
Unfreakingbelievable. So, you take a car out of a noisy yard, and drag it into a noisier shop. Why should I bother to watch your videos, if you won't even care enough to make sure we can hear what on Earth you're saying?
If I was unlucky enough to own a PT Cruiser with a bust engine I would do the right thing and build it like Chrysler should have, with a longtudially installed v8 and RWD😁
Spark plugs don’t need to be tight nice and snug is all you need 😊
Head rebuild, New head gasket and belt/idlers and spanner..
$2300 was for a ebay refurb, NOT a junk yard engine. Also, a refurb has a new timing belt.
I don't see any destruction!
I want to see pistons popping, crankcases cracking, valves crushing and bearings spinning!
Brake clean will knock those little demons right out of the air for a crash landing. I know, I am allergic to the sting. Wow, I missed this vid. It`s before the 3rd lift was installed. My son had a 2002 Neon that the timing belt snapped, wound up with many bent valves. Cost almost $1000.00 just for new parts, ie Head, timing belt set, gaskets, etc. Car was in really good shape and he bought the parts and I rebuilt it. I was surprised the pistons were not hurt as bad as I thought. It ran for another 5 years before the TCM and the ECM gave up the ghost. He Junked it.
San Luis del Rio Colorado along the border between Mexico and Arizona is the capitol of used engines. One typically costs $500 installed. If the motor doesn't run, the mechanic will choose another and install it without charge.
I'm supposed to sleep, and here I'm watching a guy fiddle with a wasp infected PT cruiser… Great!
Glad to see Ray's growing and having your own employee now.. Glad to see Ray's growing and having your own employee now..
cant take the grinding not watching
How about installing a rebuilt head??
Scrap it Ray those cars are junk anyway Bro
I don't know why people are focusing on the sync of the camshafts with the belt only being stripped at the crank. It's irrelevant. If that is an interference engine the pistons have moved up and down on crank and likely collected the valves irrespective of where the belt stripped or if the cams haven't moved. Some valves will have been open. In any event, it's worth explaining to the customer that for the price of a belt kit you can confirm if the engine is OK or not. It's more cost effective than a ~$5k repair or simply scrapping the car based on worst case scenario.
Bro goes ah we jumped timing and the belt looks loose and still trying to figure it out 😭. Thou educational purposes it’s great
I'm actually surprised it lasted until 95k, they tend to give right around 85k. Those teeth break off. Good motor, but you really have to be on time with that belt.
Breakclean works on wasps.
Timing belts – nagh! 👎
Timing chains – yegh 👍
If you’re a self employed mechanic and working by yourself. Life becomes a lot easier and your business much more profitable when you start avoiding certain vehicles and setting limit on how old a vehicle can be before you’ll even consider working on it with the rare exception
PT cruisers don’t bend valves, a non-interference engine Dodge Chrysler, Jeep, Mastertech
Paper Wasps are, thankfully, not very aggressive. I know they're scary looking and everything but, as far as wasps go, they're fairly docile. Nothing like hornets or Yellow Jackets etc.
The worst engine ever is the Mini cooper EP6 timing chain muncher.
Spare me!!
These cars never really were that great; it's no wonder you don't see them on the road anymore.
I changed the alternator on my daughters PT, had to drop the entire passenger front control arm and suspension (should have changed the CV joint while it was apart just in case) what a piece of crap, never again will i work on one of those, they are like the Bic lighter of the car world. Just toss it after 100k miles.
Chrysler product. I'm glad nothing of value was lost.
Not sure why you wouldn’t estimate the cylinder head refurb job. I’ve done timing belts on a couple of these – seems a head job would be a bit less money for the customer.
Ray,
As others are pointing out, you shouldn't jump to conlusions on this engine or other ones for that matter for various reasons that are being stated.
I've changed a few timing belts in my day and oddly enough, to my knowledge, I've never once had to deal with an engine that had bent or damaged valves or piston damage and so on. Maybe I'm just super lucky or I just haven't done enough to run into that problem yet.
In fairness, for all I know, there actually was damage and it wasn't noticeable and perhaps there were issues down the road. But, I worked at a couple dealerships for a few years and I don't recall any of them coming back afterwards for issues related to the timing belt going out like bent valves and so on. And when the repair was done, the vehicles "seemed" run well or as well as they should have considering how many miles they had on them at that time.
I know a lot of techs or mechanics talk about the interference engines or semi interference engines but just because they are either one of these DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN that it is a guarantee for failure when a timing belt/chain goes out. Of course you should be concerned though and I'm not suggesting to just dismiss the possibility all together.
As other commenters have pointed out, this may very well just be a case of the belt "teeth" or "notches" being ate away only at the crankshaft. As such, there might not have been any change in the synchronization of the camshaft sprockets until you changed it. Even then, you were going slow enough that it might not have caused any damage.
So, don't go rushing into thinking that you have to get a different engine for this car just yet.
As others mentioned, even "if" there is some valve damage, you can likely just replace the head with an used one and save them some money compared to having to look for a different car.
And although I personally can't stand the PT Cruiser because I think they are ugly and some things aren't really that easy to work on in them, the reality is, for some people, it's all they have to work with for a vehicle.
I worked at an independent shop for about a year and I remember they had a car come in for repairs that was worth about $2000 or maybe $2500 at the most. I believe they spent about $6k to $7k for the repairs of that vehicle. Completely insane in my opinion.
Personally, as a shop owner myself, I would just give the client all the options and let them decide BUT MAKE SURE TO EXPLAIN THE POTENTIAL DOWNFALLS if they choose to go whatever route they choose.
For example: if it comes to the point that it needs a different head because the valves are bent or there is engine damage, they better be aware that replacing the head IS NOT going to make the engine a "new" or "rebuilt" engine by any means just because the head was replaced the the rest of the engine is going to be the same as it was prior to the replacing the head. And as such, there is no guarantee that something else might not go wrong with the engine. Or, there is no guarantee that something won't go wrong with the used head as well.
Even if you put a new or remanufactured engine in, there could still be issues because even new engines can have problems from time to time. You just never know. So, they better understand how the warranty works if there is one.
But, if they really don't have much of an option other than to fix this one because they can't get financing or afford to get something different, then I guess you help them with this car even if it is considered "pointless".
I would just make sure to get payment upfront or at the very least partial payment for your time and parts before you go any further. You don't want to be stuck putting more time and parts into this only to find out that they can't afford to pay their bill and you've got parts in it you can't get a refund for.
On a different note about your comment about you being the "bottom tiered" labor people in town and I think you're doing yourself a dis service by doing this.
I know that as business owners or maybe more importantly "small" business owners, we get concerned that we can't compete with the other businesses that have been established but that's simply not always true.
In your case, you have to consider that many or probably "most" people bring their cars to you because they know you from your videos. Perhaps I'm trying to talk you up more than is deserved and maybe a lot of your work just comes from people that live in the area and they just happen to know your shop from being in the area.
I don't know how you do your marketing so I guess you would have to give us some insight on that. But, since your shop isn't necessarily directly on a main frontage road, how are people finding out about you? Is it from just knowing there was a shop at that location previously and you're getting a lot of previous business work or is it something else?
My point is, your knowledge and care to get vehicles repaired properly shouldn't be under valued and I think you're doing that by keeping your labor rates so low.
You have to consider something that you're probably forgetting in the majority of your clients' situations as well. If they were to have another shop work on their vehicle, would they be getting the low rate that you're offering them? Would they be getting the same care for their vehicle and expertise that you are providing?
Simply put, what other "choices" do they have?
If you are the very lowest rate in your area, then you need to stop being that immediately because that's just not smart to begin with. There's no reason to be THE lowest because at the very least, you could match whomever is the next rate above you and more than likely, you could probably even be a little bit more than that or quite a bit more.
If you're at leasting matching with the lower rates, then you can at least take price out of the equation because then there is no reason to go to another shop for price. If it's experience, well, I would like to see what these other shops have for experience that competes with yours.
You have to consider that even though your shop is "new" for you in particular, you aren't "new" in the industry by any means. And so, don't discount that like you're doing or it seems you might be doing. You've been putting out repair videos for quite a few years now and I would guess you've been doing repairs for even longer than that. So, that means something.
Also, keep in mind that if you're on the "bottom tier" for rates, then you will likely typically be dealing with "bottom tier" clients. And unfortunately, along with that brings more headaches in many cases.
Like it or not, in business, the ones that want to pay the least expect the most or complain the most. And so, do you really want to be dealing with those types of clients throughout the rest of your career as you grow your business?
I'm not saying that you should turn business away necessarily. But, I know from working in various businesses to owning a few different ones myself that clients that pay higher premiums "typically" understand how business works so there aren't as many issues to deal with when it comes to dealing with them.
Of course that's not to say that you still aren't going to have issues with some clients that can afford the "premium" rates because of course you'll have those from time to time. But, consider that some of these clients may be business owners themselves so they can relate to how issues may come up that you'll have to deal with.
So, I don't know if your labor rate is $168 per hour like it was showing on your computer screen towards the end but if that's your rate and it's low, then you just better raise it. I'm not saying you have to be at $240 or $220 an hour but maybe $180 or $185 is acceptable.
Have you gone around to see what your local competitors are charging to compare? If most of them are at least $190 or more and many are at $220, then being $50 or $30 cheaper per hour is just you leaving money on the table as they say.
Don't do that.
Consider that even if you lose a few clients here and there, it can be made up with the others that stay because it looks like you have plenty of work to handle at this point.
I understand that you're probably concerned with making sure that you can continue to keep your place busy enough to have at least that other tech busy as well as maybe one or two more for a total of 4 (including you) but my guess is the "ideal" situation would be that you are basically your own service writer with 3 techs in that small shop and you handle the daily business and help the techs as needed.
I could go on and on and I've already typed a lot as it is.
Just don't sell yourself short as they say. You've shown that you're worthy of "top tier" rates. Why don't you deserve that? Are others putting in as much effort to ensure that vehicles are being properly repaired as much as you are in that area?
We had one of these new and put 124k miles on it with no actual base engine issues- just a cam sensor position sensor. Definitely not the worst engine ever.
You’re better off getting a used Honda or Toyota for the cost of that repair. Those will easily outlast the PT.
I'd do a head swap with new gasket and water pump /timing kit. Cheap and replaces the damaged parts and nothing more. If you were a bit more ethical you would have mentioned this as I am certain it was the 1st thing you thought of. Make right your wrong doings. Get right with God. I won't reply.
The new Bronco four cylinder is a ridiculous grenade waiting to happen. Plastic oil pan, plastic valve cover, plastic timing cover, wet timing belt, tiny engine displacement but turbo charged, these are all the things an engine are not supposed to be but all in one engine. I foresee the Bronco not lasting long with the garbage engines they have. Perhaps a nice inline 6 or a real 4 cylinder may change that, with a V8 option. Even the dreaded electic motor and toxic batteries are better than the four cylinder engine in the Bronco.
Seems like the pre-2000 2.4s weren't too bad but after 2000 they had so many issues. My friends and i owned a few of both generations. My 97 stratus had 198,000 when I sold it and it ran amazing.
2.7 engine on chrysler canada Intrepid. Dodge Intrepid in USA.
Next time you have or see a wasp nest get you some hairspray will get them
We keep a spare belt for Neons and PT Cruisers as we have found that more than half don't bend the valves. We have a PT in the shop now that didn't bend the valves. We always spend an extra hour of diagnose time to pop a test belt on to verify if the pistons touched or not. If we find that the valves are bent we go the following route. We R&R the head and install a new timing set which includes the water pump. Why were you calculating to R&R the engine? Head bolt set $36.99, head gasket 49.99, new cylinder head $571.00, timing belt set with tensioner, idler, and water pump $184.00, and of course oil and filter change. Our labor rate is $100 per man-hour. Our total going this route would have been a little less than $2000. These parts prices are over-the-counter prices so our price is about 22% less. I would have taken the head to our local machine shop for repair which usually runs around $300. I used the Orilleys price just for the sake of knowing the worst-case scenario. Pulling the head is easy to do in the vehicle. Great video 🙂
I want more German language, please 😊
The labour costs in America are staggering. So wasteful to have throw cars away when it could so easily be repaired. Where I'm from you could get a whole new low mileage engine installed for around $1500.
Thought for sure you were talking about the 2.7L V6. They usually grenade by 100k.
Typical Pt Cruiser issue. Timing belt should be done around 75k. Mine did this at 78 k. Non interference motor per mechanic. Did timing belt water pump kit. Charged me $1400. Still runs strong 8 years later and at 139k.
the book will say it is an interferance engine but I have done a lot of timing belts on them, only had one that had a slightly bent valve
The 2.4 is a possible interference engine. If the timing belt strips on the crank then you are fine. If the TB strips on a cam then you have to do a total rotation leak down test. Thant means you have to rotate the cams through the entire rotation and test each cyl as you go to find ebnt valves. for this engine 95% of the time the belt will fail on the crank leaving the valves perfectly fine.
The PT Cruiser is a paper airplane at this point.. Throw that bitch away and get another.
Chrysler products are not really designed with ease of repair in mind. what a dense jungle!
scrapyard
Just remember this , Dog's ass: PT Cruiser rhymes with TRUMP-ASS LOOSER. Remember and take it with you to the polls, after your dim-witted ass remembers to register.
beating a dead horse I love the PT Cruiser, but it is a maintenance nightmare.
Terrible job. You should consider another profession.
If it were me, I would have done a bit more investigation on that job. Also the fact the timing belt was chewed out leave you wondering how long it was run without a normal service. But hay what was the customers final word on the car?? fix or not fix? it is a PT cruiser, I don't put much value on it being a front wheel drive throw away car.
My neighbor has one of those, I used to change his oil and do preventative maintenance on it, when it had around 90k on it I mentioned it was due for a T belt, he shook his head and said the owners manual said otherwise…less than a week later he was leaving the neighborhood, the belt snapped, and it was in my driveway when I got home from work…needless to say, he never gave my advice a question again.
Ray, Thanks, great informative video especially with the estimated pricing.
there's a semi-decent chance that if the belt teeth stripped on startup such that the cams didn't move much the valves didn't collide. Seems it would be worth pulling the cams and doing a leak down test on the cyls since the rest of the car looks pretty clean.
I would try to put a new belt on it at the minimum. If it doesnt work, it cost you a belt and a couple hours labour.
Brake kleen is great for those critters and welcome to hooptie vill 80% of our customers driving vehicles with no maintenance and they wonder why it broke
seeing you diagnose the problem helps me understand how it works a lot more than just watching someone repair it. thanks alot.
typical, car ran grate for 10y or so not knowing about maintenance over time then bang ! also oil was sus
well, here is my opinion, contrary to others. once the belt stops moving, and the cams don't rotate, the rotating mass of the engine will bend a valve somewhere in the system. That is why there is no compression on more that one cylinder. one valve may be open due to cam lobe position, but there would have to be others (1 or 2)that have been bent. this could have happened while driving or when trying to start the engine. The least amount of work will require a head removal to replace damaged valves and regrind or replace the seats.
I bought a lemon gmc once.
As zip ties and bias ply would say dem are some dump bees 🐝 lol
Just get each cylinder to TDC before a smoke test so you won't have to pull the cams. The crank likely just spun on the timing belt before the valves could hit each other because one of the cam sprockets would have to have jumped teeth for them to hit. Would just have to reach TDC for each cam and piston separately.
On my 1991 Plymouth Sundance with a 2.5l the belt did the same thing, except when slowing down when getting off the interstate. I was able to coast it into a gas station. Had it towed home. I put a new $30 belt on it in about two hours. Ran like a champ. Must have been non interference. Easy to replace compared to Fords and GMs where the front cover has to be removed, which involved crank pulley removal, assesory removal, gaskets, coolant, oil, etc. $100 to $200 more and a day or weekend job under my shade tree😂.
By Rainbrain, Bye!!!!!!!!!! ho.